A-freakin'-men!!! WW is so just another diet in the black hole that is diet-dom. It sucks its members into crazy-town and takes down innocent bystanders.

At least 10 women in my office are on WW and speak this language that is "Points" all day. I've attempted to learn it a couple times but it's jibberish and I fear straightjackets.

My best friend does WW and I'm aghast at her eating habits. She eats next to nothing and then flips out and eats all the junk food in her house. She counter's the binge by taking an OTC diet pill, which in turn makes her anxious and her heart palpitate. So she takes zoloft to calm herself down.

WTF!!!! Her Christmas present this year is Victoria Moran's book, "Fit From Within". Then I'm making her read "Life Inside the Thin Cage" by Constance Rhodes.

Thanks for posting this thread!

WW is not a diet is like saying the Democratic candidates are not politicians (they're just people who are running for the White House -- a totally healthy activity like jogging). WW defines the word diet: obsession, deprivation, minimal weight loss, failure, weight rebound, self hatred. And, no, even if they call themselves a "Lifestyle Change" they're still a diet with all their "Results not Typical" and so on. Truth in labeling people!

I completely disagree. WW is a diet plan, but it does teach you to realize what you are eating and how to lose weight healthily. At 16, I lost 80 pounds from being overweight my entire childhood. Now at 25, my weight has fluctuated a bit now and then, but I am at a healthy 148 pounds after returning to WW a couple of times. I am a also a vegetarian and eat VERY healthy and those women that you speak of, they are not following the plan correctly. I do agree with not eating the "fake" foods. If I want a cookie, I eat a full fat homemade chocolate chip cookie, but I eat two, not ten.

I have to disagree too. I like WW - it works for me (55 lbs gone & counting) and I don't find myself obsessing over food. It holds me accountable which is what I need. I suppose it's like anything - it works for some but not all.

I originally did Weight Watchers back before the whole Points(R) thing. Back then it was "exchanges" or something, and I think it really did help me pay attention to stuff like "Did I eat any fruit or vegetables today?" and "How's my calcium intake?" It made me mindful, but not obsessed, and I did have a lot of success on it. The Points thing totally feeds my obsessive tendencies, though, and the Core thing just irritated the fuck out of me.

You'll never convince me that the main reason they change their plan periodically isn't to just make more money. I don't believe they're looking for anything that works better or is easier. (Because, seriously, how is "X points per food for X points per day, carry the 1" easier than "2 servings of protein, 5 servings of fruits and vegetables, etc."?) They just want people to buy more stuff. (That was probably a "duh" comment, I realize.)

SS DD, Same schtick, different denomination. WW, Jenny Craig, LA Weight Loss, whatever, it's all the same insanity. Sure it's helpful, if you can maintain a state of constant vigilance and never relax over what you eat, that is.

It's also good if you can manage to equate a physical state with lax morality - all of those women you speak of in the church basement cheering on your abstemiousness. Isn't that really saying "I didn't eat X, aren't I a *good and worthy* person now?" Like you'd have been a slovenly glutton if you'd have had a bite or two.

But, in the end, it just epitomizes the definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I should know - I paid one of those big diet companies thousands of dollars for years and didn't lose more than those thousands of dollars.

How many points are in those sour grapes of mine, do you think?

The day a WW weigh-in lady told me I would "not be pleased with myself" because I gained a pound was the day I gave the program my final "fuck you very much". Yeah, it's good ideas but the Points system has serious flaws...it makes all food fall into "good" or bad" categories, there's an encouragement to be obsessed with the Points value of a food but ignore the nutritional value, and the "extra Points" pretty much encourages a binge day every week. Man, I hated WW by the time I finally got to quit.

My first trip to Weight Watchers was back in the olden days, when you had to eat liver once a week, fish five times a week and you mixed your tuna with mustard. Because you weren't allowed to have mayonnaise. That would be 34 years ago. I totally became obsessed, not so much with food, but with when I could eat again. I lived my life from meal to meal. I lost weight and even became a WW leader for a few years.

As time went on, I drifted away from the program, gained weight and tried it again in one of its later iterations. I found myself again just counting the hours until I could eat.

I don't care to live like that. If it works for you, fine. But for me, and it looks like I'm not alone, it definitely created disordered eating.

WW is a diet. And a corporate money-making monolith. My mom has been on and off since 1974, and while she seems to benefit from the group support aspect, it has never seemed to do much for her weight.

As for me, I am the kid who brought a book to the pep rally in high school. I've always hated the rah-rah, and the cheerleading/peer pressure of the meetings turned me way off.

And I could no longer maintain any delusion of WW being there to help people when Whitman's came out with Weight Watchers Candies.

Yeah it's such a diet. WW did work at first when I was totally out of control. It helped to learn portions and get back in touch with hunger signals but after a while I totally became obsessed. I took off for about 6 months and worked with a therapist to get my bingeing under control which helped WAY more than WW ever did. After a while I decided I was ready to go back. Now I've been back in for 6 weeks and guess what's happening? I'M BINGEING AGAIN. I hate it, I'm gonna ask if I can get a refund and quit.

I developed an eating disorder on WW too! I was eating 1000 calories and doing an hour of cardio. I binged and then would restrict horribly to "make up for it" by weigh in.
So dysfunctional. I'm just now learning how to maintain and not deprive and not be crazy.

THANK YOU and AMEN for soooo elegantly putting into words the way I feel about the Weight Watchers DIET!!!! It is a diet, no matter how they package or market it. Anything that restricts what you eat is a DIET and that is a four letter word I don't use anymore!

A friend is having great success on their Core program (and she keeps trying to drag me back). It is great for her but I think I have finally found what works for me: eating REAL food, getting my butt to the gym and doing it for ME and no one else!!!

I'm going to stay mum on the WW thing, because my feelings are mixed, but god the whole "substitution"/fake-tasting low-fat foods thing makes me think of this hilarious clip from Little Britain involving their version of WeightWatchers.:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qcVZg2tVswk

"Dust: high in fat? low in fat? anybody??"

Heh.

My parents (who just turned 60) have just gotten involved in WW and seem to having some success at it. I'm happy they made that choice, because I've been worried about them, and am glad to see them trying to change their health. Also, realistically, I think there are some habits (the junk food and convenience food habit) that they won't ever do away with. So, in their case, I think something is better than nothing.

I do, however, believe WW contributed to my developing an eating disorder in high school and the major dietary disfunctions I experienced in my 20's and 30's. I was on the program like Debbi described, and I ended up with some very screwed up ideas that made a number on a scale more important than nutrition and health.

I don't do WW now and don't think I ever will again. I'm an advocate of clean eating and have found it works wonders at alleviating most of my food issues.

I think the program they've got now is better than what they used to have, and that, like any "tool," the benefits you reap from it are in direct proportion to the quality of the efforts you put into it. That said, yeah, OF COURSE it's a "diet," and like most of the corporate marketing we're constantly bombarded with, they're selling something any way they can, and buyers should always be wary whenever anyone's trying to sell them something.

My parents (who just turned 60) have just gotten involved in WW and seem to having some success at it. I'm happy they made that choice, because I've been worried about them, and am glad to see them trying to change their health. Also, realistically, I think there are some habits (the junk food and convenience food habit) that they won't ever do away with. So, in their case, I think something is better than nothing.

I do, however, believe WW contributed to my developing an eating disorder in high school and the major dietary disfunctions I experienced in my 20's and 30's. I was on the program like Debbi described, and I ended up with some very screwed up ideas that made a number on a scale more important than nutrition and health.

I don't do WW now and don't think I ever will again. I'm an advocate of clean eating and have found it works wonders at alleviating most of my food issues.

I think the program they've got now is better than what they used to have, and that, like any "tool," the benefits you reap from it are in direct proportion to the quality of the efforts you put into it. That said, yeah, OF COURSE it's a "diet," and like most of the corporate marketing we're constantly bombarded with, they're selling something any way they can, and buyers should always be wary whenever anyone's trying to sell them something.

I kind of hate WW, but kind of love it. It is a diet so all of the stuff that we know about diets being el-lame-o is also true of WW. BUT knowing I have that weigh in at the end of the week helps me from falling into a vat of chili fries, and it helps me not open that 2nd bottle of wine at dinner. I am very happy with my body and I love myself. I'm also a little larger right now than I'm really comfortable with. And the sad fact is that when I'm going to meetings I lose weight. I want to to be all bad ass and say that they are stupid heads and diets are all evil but it works for me. (I also have an amazing leader who wold never say any sort of self hate bullshit to me.)

I'm not quite clear on why we're all so mad at Weight Watchers? It feels like a whole hell of a lot of displaced anger. I'm not saying we should be angry at ourselves - that's defeatist and stupid and unkind - but we should take personal responsibility for our decisions. We made ourselves overweight by eating too much as some kind of coping skill or need to fill a hole of some kind. Nobody put a gun to our heads. We did it to ourselves.

WOW, so been here and there before. I've gained the same 30-40 pounds in the last 5 years doing Weight Watchers. But I don't know... I'm just not a good intuitive eater. Having the points to give me an upper bound really seems to work, when it works. I'm on Wellbutrin now, and that has an appetite suppressant quality. That plus points seems to be helping. But I'm counting points and eating little helpings of dark chocolate almost EVERY day, and still going out and enjoying a meal with friends... I'm trying to get away from the all or nothing mentality, yet have a limit. Look, you eat more than a certain # of calories a day, you gain weight. Eat less than you need, you lose weight. Whether we call them points or whatever, that's just biology. Points are easy for me to remember and GUESSTIMATE. "Oh, I had a taste of something from the salad bar. Tack on 1 point for that."
Not to say there aren't problems with the points plan, but it ain't horrible.

Kiala, I'm irritated at Weight Watchers because they're basically saying that diets are bad and acting like they are somehow beyond the other diet programs out there. It's lying and it's offensive. The conversation, though, just sort of branched into our own experiences with how unnatural and weird it is to be on Weight Watchers, but as I said, some people really do well with it. It's totally one of those "your mileage may vary" things.

I see your point Weetabix. I guess the tangent got me all riled up about personal responsibility. Yes, they are complete hypocrites...I guess I just get upset at us as Americans constantly needing someone to point out the hypocrisy inherent in big business. You'd think by now we would all be wary enough on our own to not be so surprised by this kind of deceptive advertising coming from a for profit business. You're point is on the money. I'm just disappointed in the naivety of people, that's all. We're part of the problem. We fuel the greed by throwing our money at these diet people. Throw the money at a charity instead. God, now I sound like a ranting hippy. I'll stop now.

Oh, and Weet - you are an excellent example of charitable giving. I did not mean to sggest otherwise. I'm mostly talking about myself along with the rest of the world.

Semantics, and really not worth getting all worked up about. It's a business for Pete's sake, of course it's all about marketing and making money. That being said...

"Going on a diet" is generally perceived as being something temporary. WW tells you up front that in order to lose weight and keep it off, you must make permanent changes. I am not a meeting goer myself - really not my thing - but my understanding is that once you get to goal, and stay there for a certain amount of time, you can keep going to meetings without paying.

WW does emphasize eating healthy foods (from what I can see as an online member), but it's up to each person to make their food choices. People feed themselves, so I don't think it's fair to blame WW when people make bad choices. They put the information out there, it's up to the individual to use it.

Not to say that it isn't a diet. Of course it is. But it's intended to be one that you stay on for life.

Not to say that it will work for everyone. Of course it won't. But it does work for some people. Different strokes for different folks.

Will it work for me? Maybe, maybe not. But if it doesn't, I won't blame WW. I'll just know that this is not the right method for me, and I'll move on.

And for the record - I do believe that healthy eating and exercise are the way to go, and I don't eat "diet" foods...But I know I need a little push, a little motivation, a little accountability so that I will be consistent in making healthy choices more often. If that wasn't the case, I wouldn't be overweight, now would I?

Semantics, and really not worth getting all worked up about. It's a business for Pete's sake, of course it's all about marketing and making money. That being said...

"Going on a diet" is generally perceived as being something temporary. WW tells you up front that in order to lose weight and keep it off, you must make permanent changes. I am not a meeting goer myself - really not my thing - but my understanding is that once you get to goal, and stay there for a certain amount of time, you can keep going to meetings without paying.

WW does emphasize eating healthy foods (from what I can see as an online member), but it's up to each person to make their food choices. People feed themselves, so I don't think it's fair to blame WW when people make bad choices. They put the information out there, it's up to the individual to use it.

Not to say that it isn't a diet. Of course it is. But it's intended to be one that you stay on for life.

Not to say that it will work for everyone. Of course it won't. But it does work for some people. Different strokes for different folks.

Will it work for me? Maybe, maybe not. But if it doesn't, I won't blame WW. I'll just know that this is not the right method for me, and I'll move on.

And for the record - I do believe that healthy eating and exercise are the way to go, and I don't eat "diet" foods...But I know I need a little push, a little motivation, a little accountability so that I will be consistent in making healthy choices more often. If that wasn't the case, I wouldn't be overweight, now would I?

It's true, different things work for different people. I just don't know of anyone personally who has been able to sustain WW or ANY diet for the long haul. Including myself. I did WW three separate times, and my experiences were exactly like what you wrote about. I became obsessed, had disordered eating and exercising, and ended up binging.
Recently I saw a model on a morning news show touting Slim Fast, saying the old "It's-not-a-diet-it's-a-lifestyle-change"
thing. Sorry, but drinking shakes all day is NOT a sustainable lifestyle.
Can I give a shout-out to Intuitive Eating? It's a book, and there are message boards on Yahoo, and there are a whole bunch of support groups out there for it. It's changed my life, and I'll never diet again.

I lost around 15 pounds on WW a year ago, and when I had to go off it because I was out of the country I gained over 20 pounds. I immediately went back on, and gained 10 pounds within a month. My roommates mocked me for "not doing it correctly" but it was the program, not anything else, that was making me so incredibly insane. I was absolutely obsessed with everything I ate. I would eat next to nothing, and then exercise for hours. My cravings intensified, and I would end up binge eating. As soon as I went off the program, I was able to relax about food, and lost that extra weight I had gained during the program.

When I was doing the program with my roommates, we would eat well all week and then binge after weigh-in. This "worked" for one of the four of us.

There are probably people out there for whom WW works. These are people who don't have already existing compulsive overeating tendencies. The vast majority of people that WW attracts are people who already have bad relationships with food. Regimented control of what you can and can't eat puts the subject on your mind so much more, and it can have an adverse effect.

I've been on WW for three months and adore it (I'm down 21 pounds so far). WW teaches me how to make responsible choices and about portion control (when I plugged all my recipes into the Recipe Builder, I realized everything I was eating was reasonably healthy, I was just eating five servings at a time).

Of course there are things about it that drive me crazy (I absolutely don't believe in low-fat foods and I wish someone would mention that processed foods are awful for you, even if they're low-point) and I'm sure that if you don't have a good meeting, WW can be a nightmare and god knows the women on the message boards are batshit, but for me, it's been an easy way to lose weight without feeling like I'm depriving myself.

My WW motto is "It's not that deep." Sure, I want to lose the weight (I've got about 15 pounds to go), but if I go all out on one meal, it's not the end of the damn world. I think, however, if you don't go into it with that attitude, it can probably be devastating.

I don't think of WW as a diet...I truly believe that it's giving me the tools to healthily maintain my goal weight for life. I do think, however, that if I were doing Core, I'd hate it.

I've been on WW for three months and adore it (I'm down 21 pounds so far). WW teaches me how to make responsible choices and about portion control (when I plugged all my recipes into the Recipe Builder, I realized everything I was eating was reasonably healthy, I was just eating five servings at a time).

Of course there are things about it that drive me crazy (I absolutely don't believe in low-fat foods and I wish someone would mention that processed foods are awful for you, even if they're low-point) and I'm sure that if you don't have a good meeting, WW can be a nightmare and god knows the women on the message boards are crazy, but for me, it's been an easy way to lose weight without feeling like I'm depriving myself.

My WW motto is "It's not that deep." Sure, I want to lose the weight (I've got about 15 pounds to go), but if I go all out on one meal, it's not the end of the damn world. I think, however, if you don't go into it with that attitude, it can probably be devastating.

I don't think of WW as a diet...I truly believe that it's giving me the tools to healthily maintain my goal weight for life. I do think, however, that if I were doing Core, I'd hate it.

I have to disagree to an extent. I have been at my goal weight for 4 years, and all with Weight Watchers. I started on the Winning Points program, and it taught me how to eat. I needed to learn that a fried corn dog was pricey, but acceptable. I NEEDED to learn that fruits and veggies were a good choice. True, any eating change can bring out the crazy bitch in people, but you have to have crazy bitch tendencies. WW doesn't MAKE you obsess, you do. Your points are a guideline, the 'flex points' your padding for error. If you work it like the materials tell you to, you don't binge or obsess. WW helped me on my way to forgiveness for my flaws, and acceptance of myself. I have seen women misuse the program, binge nd then not eat, but this is not what WW intends. Yea, they are a corporation, yea they make money. So does Nike. They both sell a product you can use to get fit and healthy. If it works for you, great.

You don't needs to go to Weight Watchers, just go to About.com and look under Women's Nutrition, and calorie requirements. It tells you exactly how many calories you need to maintain your weight, how many you need to lose a pound a week, etc. Just eat 5 servings of fruit and vegetables a day with some protein and whole wheat grains. It's not rocket science and you'll lose weight.

Amanda, LMFAO!!!! WW helped me get in touch with my inner crazy bitch! I LOVE it!!!!!!

Amanda Pennell, you said, "WW doesn't MAKE you obsess, you do. Your points are a guideline, the 'flex points' your padding for error. If you work it like the materials tell you to, you don't binge or obsess."

Perhaps you should rephrase this. WW may not make YOU obsess or binge when you "work the program" but for women who have struggled with an eating disorder, like me, it absolutely does. They market themselves as "not a diet" but they are ABSOLUTELY a diet, and I think a lot of women like me can't handle restriction, not even a little bit, or it triggers all sorts of disordered behaviors in us. Our "fault"? Maybe. But that's just part of my personality.

I need to give myself freedom to eat whatever I want, whenever I'm hungry. Anytime I start with numbers or restricting, it absolutely triggers a cycle of disordered eating.

I lost 45 lbs. by following the WW Core plan, am a size 2; and have been maintaining since Jan '07. I have never starved for a moment on WW, in fact I'm eating more foods with more variety than any other time in my life.

If anyone is eating past their comfort level, they're not following WW. The 8 good health guidelines are also a part of the plan, so if you're not getting them, you're not doing WW either. I believe that if you feel the need to make excuses at weigh-in, that's your trip. Also, when you're following Core, you can eat anything that's not on the list - you just have to count the points for it. As a woman with a strong family history of Diabetes, the Core plan is a nearly ideal way for me to eat.

To wrap it up - I agree with what you said, most of us who struggle with our weight could have a PhD in knowing what we SHOULD do, but some of us aren't superheroes, there's no shame in wanting a bit of extra accountability and support.

Weight Watchers is not only just another damned diet, but they lie as much as anyone in the Weight Loss Business - 5-10% success rate is nothing to brag about.

Weight Watchers is totally a diet. Whoever came up with the current advertising campaign should be shot.

Of course, I'd never heard about the campaign until I read it here. I'm too busy surfing the internet to bother with television.

I actually like Weight Watchers. I've been doing it since September and have lost 18 pounds. I'm pretty sloppy now during the holidays, but the weekly weigh-ins help keep me accountable.

Look, I don't have huge, huge issues with food, and it works for me. I don't binge, have never made myself throw up, and have never been anorexic. I have a love-hate relationship with working out, but I know I feel better when I go to the gym.

I'm old enough to remember a lot of crazy diets. I lost 30 pounds on South Beach, but found it difficult to keep it up. South Beach isn't low-carb per se, but at times, it seems close.

I mean, for Christ's sake, once in a while you want to be able to eat a sandwich.

Also any plan that lets you drink from day one has my vote.

I have never tried WW but I counted calories and it had the same effect that a lot of you are describing. I would severely restrict my calories while working out obsessively. Any weight I lost turned out to be muscle mass because my body rebelled ... imagine, I suffered that much and I didn't even get skinnier to show for it. I despaired.

Can't say I'm completely over it yet, but I've been seeing a nutritionist and just admitting that I needed to, plus her help, has made a huge difference.

Weetabix, in her initial comments, quoted a journalist whom I really, really respect and who has a lot to say on this issue: Michael Pollan. (The "Eat food, mostly plants" thing is his.)

His stuff is not a weight loss guide at all -- it's mostly a very intelligent look at how we got to this point in the first place, and what he writes really resonates with me so I read it sometimes when I'm feeling The Crazy coming on.

If any of you are interested, here is a link to a piece of his from the New York Times called "Our National Eating Disorder:" http://www.michaelpollan.com/article.php?id=71

Now, I'm not trying to dodge responsibility for any of my actions. I'm just saying that reading this and other articles he's written have really made me think about my (and America's) relationship with food and have calmed me down when I'm feeling particularly frenzied. Hope it helps.

I am of two minds about WW. I have been on it for 4 months now and lost just under 50 pounds. I can see how people could go right around the bend with it. I can also see people losing 'weight' while still eating like crap. I took it the other way and chose to follow the points as a guide to portion control and some structure, but I also took it upon myself to reduce most empty calorie items and eliminate all the chemical laden food. You CAN lose weight on WW by eating ice cream and McDonalds, as long as it's in your point range. But the people who are doing that are the ones that are not using the program. And I mean USE it. Use it so it works for you. Use the information and the education and the structure. You're paying for it, why not?

The meetings that I go to drive me crazy with how obsessed people are about foods (especially low points ones), but I still go because the accountability to myself is found there.

WW is a diet if you use it to lose weight and then plan on going back to your old ways.

WW is NOT a diet if you use it to provide structure and education. Then it's a lifestyle.

This is an interesting blog entry and I just posted my opinion about it in my blog.
www.myallnaturalweightloss.com
Take care,
Lorrie
The Token Fat Girl

WW is a diet. JC is a diet all these plans are diets that hopefully at some point can steer you into the right direction to change your unhealthy eating habits.

I lost 130lbs on WW 5 years ago and now I am on the road to losing the weight I gained back which was all 130 PLUS 60 more for good measure UGH!

I am doing JC. I will say the consultations with JC are much more helpful. I like it.